Post by Shalyn on Oct 27, 2006 4:34:43 GMT -5
I've been asked a few times so I thought I'd make a post on here about Dia and Bio.
When I was a 'young' red mage, I'd allow the black mage to cast bio before I casted dia, thinking it was okay since they don't stack but the last spell casted overwrites the previous. I've since learned that no, that is not how it works, from my own experiements and from those of others.
It works like this:
Bio II>Dia II>Bio>Dia
Of course, works the same with the new spells.
Bio III > Dia III > Bio II > Dia II > Bio > Dia
This is the reason that RDMs were so happy to get Dia III, since some drks and blms don't know when the situation applies to use one or the other and don't know the 'non-stackability' of these spells, as well as the 'hierarchy'.
Here is a part of the RDM Q&A on Alla.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Do Dia and Bio stack?
A: No, they do not. They never have, either. I personally test this every time Square-Enix releases a quarterly publish, just to make sure. If you hear otherwise, know that it's an unsubstantiated rumor. Here are some facts about these spells:
The priority order for over-writing is: Bio II > Dia II > Bio > Dia. The spell on the left always takes priority, canceling all effects on the right. For reference, Dia reduces the mob's Defense, and Bio reduces the mob's Attack. The tier I versions last 60 seconds and reduce the appropriate stat by 5%. Tier II lasts 120 seconds with a 10% stat debuff. Both spells deal initial damage, deal damage over time for the duration, and give the target mob 10% TP.
As I mentioned, they don't stack. But you don't have to take MY word for it, here are three simple tests that anybody can do to verify (and I strongly suggest doing them to settle the issue in your own mind):
- The /check method
When you /check a mob, it will either be "high defense", "low defense", or somewhere in the middle (no message), depending on the mob's Defense rating as compared to your Attack rating. You can use this fact to your advantage to test to over-write properties of Dia and Bio.
First, find a mob that's just -barely- above "low defense". Try mobs of different levels, equipping/removing +Attack gear, and using low-skill weapons until you find an appropriate target. Casting Dia should make the mob check "low defense", If it does not, find another mob.
Now, cast Dia on the mob, and watch the /check message change to "low defense". Cast Bio on the mob. If the effects stacked, the defense down from Dia would remain. Alas, checking the mob again will reveal that the mob is no longer "low defense". You'll see the same results for Dia II and Bio II.
- The DOT method
"But wait!", you say, "there is more to Dia and Bio than the attack/defense debuff!" This is correct, both spells also deal DOT damage. What's to say that they don't stack?
Well, this is also easy to test. As you already know, a mob that is Slept will wake up when it takes damage. So, if you are able to sleep a mob for more than a nanosecond, it is not currently taking any damage from a DOT effect.
To test this, find a mob that won't die from the DOT effects. Cast Bio, and wait about 45-50 seconds (remember, Bio I lasts 60 seconds). Now, cast Dia. Since Dia lasts 60 seconds as well, if the DOT effect stacks, it will continue to damage the mob after Bio wears off.
Finally, wait for the Bio wear-off message, and try to Sleep the mob. Unfortunately for you, the mob will remain asleep, proving that Dia's DOT effect doesn't stick. You can also test this with Dia II and Bio, and Bio II and Dia II.
- The wear-off method
This test is the easiest of all. If you cast Bio on a mob, and wait 60 seconds, you will see the spell wear off. Ditto for Dia. But cast them both one after another, in any order, and you will only see the wear-off message for the one with higher priority, no matter how long you wait.
This test is obviously not conclusive, however it IS easy to do quickly, and proves a point.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As well, I've also been asked to point out usefulness of either.
In exp, Bio, being a spell that lowers the mob's attack, is clearly better for a blood-tanker, such as a paladin. For soloing, if you're /anythingbutnin, it is also quite useful. Drks, I'm sure, can tell you this.. (lolsolodrk)
For gods, such as Kirin, Bio works well because I am *almost* completely sure that its DoT is higher than Dia, especially if it is cast by a job that has high dark magic (such as BLM or evn DRK). The more dark magic you have, the more the DoT, thereby counteracting Regen.
In exp, Dia, being a spell that lowers the mob's defence, is fairly clearly better suited for a shadow-tanker, such as a ninja or a /nin. For soloing, depending if you can keep your shadows up all of the time, it is also something nice to throw in to speed up the kill. Let's hope you don't really get hit, though. Then again, for a soloing mage, any DoT on a mob EM+ isn't really a good idea. Sleep is very valuable, but that can be saved for another discussion.
To conclude, think about the mob you are fighting and the tanks you are using for the fight, even if it is yourself.
And just to give an idea of the MP:
I---->Bio (15) Dia (7)
II--->Bio (36) Dia (30)
III-->Bio (54) Dia (45)
Lot's of info HERE as well. Hope that answered your questions, (fun) (excitement)!
When I was a 'young' red mage, I'd allow the black mage to cast bio before I casted dia, thinking it was okay since they don't stack but the last spell casted overwrites the previous. I've since learned that no, that is not how it works, from my own experiements and from those of others.
It works like this:
Bio II>Dia II>Bio>Dia
Of course, works the same with the new spells.
Bio III > Dia III > Bio II > Dia II > Bio > Dia
This is the reason that RDMs were so happy to get Dia III, since some drks and blms don't know when the situation applies to use one or the other and don't know the 'non-stackability' of these spells, as well as the 'hierarchy'.
Here is a part of the RDM Q&A on Alla.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Do Dia and Bio stack?
A: No, they do not. They never have, either. I personally test this every time Square-Enix releases a quarterly publish, just to make sure. If you hear otherwise, know that it's an unsubstantiated rumor. Here are some facts about these spells:
The priority order for over-writing is: Bio II > Dia II > Bio > Dia. The spell on the left always takes priority, canceling all effects on the right. For reference, Dia reduces the mob's Defense, and Bio reduces the mob's Attack. The tier I versions last 60 seconds and reduce the appropriate stat by 5%. Tier II lasts 120 seconds with a 10% stat debuff. Both spells deal initial damage, deal damage over time for the duration, and give the target mob 10% TP.
As I mentioned, they don't stack. But you don't have to take MY word for it, here are three simple tests that anybody can do to verify (and I strongly suggest doing them to settle the issue in your own mind):
- The /check method
When you /check a mob, it will either be "high defense", "low defense", or somewhere in the middle (no message), depending on the mob's Defense rating as compared to your Attack rating. You can use this fact to your advantage to test to over-write properties of Dia and Bio.
First, find a mob that's just -barely- above "low defense". Try mobs of different levels, equipping/removing +Attack gear, and using low-skill weapons until you find an appropriate target. Casting Dia should make the mob check "low defense", If it does not, find another mob.
Now, cast Dia on the mob, and watch the /check message change to "low defense". Cast Bio on the mob. If the effects stacked, the defense down from Dia would remain. Alas, checking the mob again will reveal that the mob is no longer "low defense". You'll see the same results for Dia II and Bio II.
- The DOT method
"But wait!", you say, "there is more to Dia and Bio than the attack/defense debuff!" This is correct, both spells also deal DOT damage. What's to say that they don't stack?
Well, this is also easy to test. As you already know, a mob that is Slept will wake up when it takes damage. So, if you are able to sleep a mob for more than a nanosecond, it is not currently taking any damage from a DOT effect.
To test this, find a mob that won't die from the DOT effects. Cast Bio, and wait about 45-50 seconds (remember, Bio I lasts 60 seconds). Now, cast Dia. Since Dia lasts 60 seconds as well, if the DOT effect stacks, it will continue to damage the mob after Bio wears off.
Finally, wait for the Bio wear-off message, and try to Sleep the mob. Unfortunately for you, the mob will remain asleep, proving that Dia's DOT effect doesn't stick. You can also test this with Dia II and Bio, and Bio II and Dia II.
- The wear-off method
This test is the easiest of all. If you cast Bio on a mob, and wait 60 seconds, you will see the spell wear off. Ditto for Dia. But cast them both one after another, in any order, and you will only see the wear-off message for the one with higher priority, no matter how long you wait.
This test is obviously not conclusive, however it IS easy to do quickly, and proves a point.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As well, I've also been asked to point out usefulness of either.
In exp, Bio, being a spell that lowers the mob's attack, is clearly better for a blood-tanker, such as a paladin. For soloing, if you're /anythingbutnin, it is also quite useful. Drks, I'm sure, can tell you this.. (lolsolodrk)
For gods, such as Kirin, Bio works well because I am *almost* completely sure that its DoT is higher than Dia, especially if it is cast by a job that has high dark magic (such as BLM or evn DRK). The more dark magic you have, the more the DoT, thereby counteracting Regen.
In exp, Dia, being a spell that lowers the mob's defence, is fairly clearly better suited for a shadow-tanker, such as a ninja or a /nin. For soloing, depending if you can keep your shadows up all of the time, it is also something nice to throw in to speed up the kill. Let's hope you don't really get hit, though. Then again, for a soloing mage, any DoT on a mob EM+ isn't really a good idea. Sleep is very valuable, but that can be saved for another discussion.
To conclude, think about the mob you are fighting and the tanks you are using for the fight, even if it is yourself.
And just to give an idea of the MP:
I---->Bio (15) Dia (7)
II--->Bio (36) Dia (30)
III-->Bio (54) Dia (45)
Lot's of info HERE as well. Hope that answered your questions, (fun) (excitement)!
